Skill Sets - Permadeath Devilduck - Aug 02, 2005 - 12:55 PM Post subject: Permadeath
I know most of you when you hear that term immediately shiver and recoil in horror, but let me take a moment to explain what I have in mind and get your feed back.
First let me start off by defining what I classify as permadeath. To me permadeath is a function of the game where when a character experiances an event that causes them to be killed then that character becomes no longer playable permanently.
Pretty harsh function huh? I mean one slip up and all that hard work you have just spent months doing and BAM! its gone. That would truly suck in a majorly bad way. I wouldn't want that and I am sure no one else would. So why am I promoting permadeath as a game feature? I am glad you asked!
Let me start off by saying that combat in Valhyre is not going to be your typical 1 or 2 shot kills. My goal is to have your average fight last 3 to 4 minutes. One shotting an opponent should never occur. The plan is to give the players every opportunity to avoid situations that would lead to a no win situation. Of course I understand that people will be people and do the darnest things so I do expect there will be times when someone will jump into the bottomless pit with both feet.
So let me tell you why permadeath and what method of implementation will occur so its not the horror everyone expects
There are only two races in Valhyre subject to perma death Daishars and Vampyres. Daishars are infused by the lifeforce of the Valhyre that they are no longer human and their lifeforces are no longer tied to this realm so when they die their lifeforce returns to the source. Vampyres have ingested the lifeforce of so many different lifeforms that their own is diluted and diminished. So what is tied to this realm is unretrievable.
It is a choice to become either of these two races. A player is perfectly fine staying a human and continuing their journey. But if a player wants an added twist to the game play Vampyre and Daishar offer that twist. To counter act the bonuses Vamps and Dais get and to ensure the whole world isnt populated with only Vamps and Dais a method was needed to remove numbers from the population, This is were permadeath comes in. Sort of a risk/ reward mechanic.
Now there will be methods that a Vampyre and Daishar can use to circumvent the permadeath when death occurs, but the plan right now is to make it obtainable through a long and hard quest. And the quest has to be repeated for each time permadeath is circumvented.
The nature of the quest isnt worked out yet. One avenue I had in mind was to have the quest to be completed after a permadeath event but before the character was allowed to reenter the realm
Sort of like the ghost mode in other games but where you have to do something while dead so to speak
So there is the run down of how the plan for permadeath in Valhyre. What do you think?Aurora - Aug 02, 2005 - 01:07 PM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
The concept of perma-death, as you said, is pretty scary, but having the choice to either go down that route or not put's the decision firmly in the player's hands. So they know what they're getting themselves into.
I only have two concerns. The first is that despite the threatof perma-death, you may still see humans being the most played race for the attraction of the more powerful character, regardless of the consequences. Personally, I'd rather see each race have it's more powerful being, while still keeping the perma-death threat. You'd still only get the people who are totally happy with perma-death going down that route (with the odd hard-of-understanding exception) but perhaps the numbers of other races may stay more balanced?
Plus, having the quest to be able to circumvent perma-death takes the sting out of it and may mean you will see a lot more people taking that chance just to get the more powerful character, especially if it is something you do while dead - then it's a case of 'oh well, if I die I can just do this quest and it may take a while but I won't lose my character'. Something to do while alive, sort of 'if I do this really long involved quest I'll have something akin to a get out of jail free card'. But the difference is, that there is always the risk of getting killed before the quest is completed. And I think you need that element of risk to make the reward worthwhile.
My other concern was about the more powerful beings themselves. What is to stop them from going after the ordinary characters? True, you are trying to keep away from the one-shot kill (thank you!) but even so, if these beings are more powerful then there isn't going to be a lot of chance of an ordinary character either beating them or getting away. I can see how a group of just 2 or 3 of these more powerful beings could terrorise the less powerful.
I'm sure you've thought about all this though Devilduck - Aug 02, 2005 - 03:45 PM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
One aspect of the get out of jail free quest I have been mulling over is make the quest failable. And by failing the quest your character is perma dead. This way there is a risk to obtaining the reward. A player can choose to get the reward at the risk of loosing their character, or they can choose not to risk it and make sure they dont get into situations where they can be killedcatharsis - Aug 02, 2005 - 03:46 PM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
One game I've seen - still under NDA, sorry - has two levels of involvment to handle Permadeath as well as regular PvP and PK. There's two starter levels and a final, "mature" level - where you can get the most benefits from game play, but you also stand to risk it all by Permadeath. You can create your character and move it successfully through the tiers of invovlement until you feel comfortable enought to chance Permadeath.
You could also incorporate the flashing name from L2 to put up a neon sign that says, "Hey, I prey on newbies! Come kill me, quick!" It seemed to work quite well in L2.Interrupt - Sep 16, 2005 - 01:12 AM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
Some thoughts on permadeath. First of all if the game is designed to focus on roleplaying and not grinding and out of character power playing, then I think it fits perfect.
One of the things to consider is that the quest to return from death is not one that can be completed solely by the person that was killed. Perhaps to bring or "raise" a character eligible for permadeath you need help from the corporeal world while you work on things from your end as well.
Additionally if a race that is subject to permadeath dies, and then returns whos to say that the character should return at their full strength. I believe you can keep the sting by emulating a recovery phase where the character say looses skills and power to the level point where they first crossed over. These skills/levels will return igradually on their own or more quests and work can be done to expedite the process.
At any rate, just some thoughts, I haven't even read through the entire site yet so if I'm completely off base juts poke me.Isupreme - Sep 16, 2005 - 01:40 PM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
I wonder if this permdeath mechanic is going to function to remove vamps and dashirs from the population. Especially if you start watering it down.
I think it makes for a giant bowl of complaining. Everyone who is focused on completing a quest to get their character alive again will complain complain complain when they arent successfull or it takes too much effort.
I think permdeath even in this form is a bad mechanical fix to replace player boredom.
I didnt see any indication that these races would be superior/stronger, and i trust that is not the case.
Game elements which cause player grief are not good. Give us lots of action, teamwork and beautiful scenery instead. I dont see value in permadeath gameplay and dont need it to be immersed.Cobal - Sep 17, 2005 - 03:50 PM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
how about a form of semi permadeath where the killed character needs help from friends to regain life.
Lets take a vampire for example; friends of a vampire would need to do a ritual blood sacrifice at the location where the vampire died, thusly bringing him back in a weakened form.
Preferably it would need multiple players to perform the ritual so that a player cant do it him/herself with an alt.
After the ritual the character would be to weak to play for, oh lets say a month. That would help in keeping the amount of actually alive vampires down a bit.
The player behind the vampire would be inclined to have an alt of a different race then human to continue play in this month of regen, they allready leveled a human after all and variaty is the spice of life.Devilduck - Sep 21, 2005 - 09:06 PM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
Permadeath in Valhyre is not a mechanic used to aleviate player boredom, It is to be an integral part of these two evolutions. One of the core beliefs I have about games is that there should be a balanced risk verse reward system. Daishar and Vampyre will have abilities and a path no other race will have available to them. Permadeath is the risk they take to go down that path. Just like Bastlur will have abilities and paths no other race will have available, and have risks that only pertain to them.
Now that being said, all the risks associated with one path or another will be throughly presented to the player and before they cross the point of no return they will be given the chance to choose a different path.Isupreme - Sep 25, 2005 - 06:48 PM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
Well i like the concept of balance risk vs reward. And i like giving players choices like: how much risk do you want in your game? And it is good as you say to inform the player of the risks. ... .. .. so i guess im confused. nice.
Would the Daishar and vampyre players be so powerfull that the rest of us mere humans would feel inadequate?
Would the permdeath option be continuously there for them? Or just a chosen event?
I highly recomend another term to conotate what you are designing.
Permadeath should mean just that. Anything else give it another name.
As above, will it actually work to balance the interest in uberness?Devilduck - Sep 25, 2005 - 08:32 PM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
The Daishar and Vampyre are still in the concept stages, their original concept was to have them more powerful than a mere human, and the risk of permadeath being the offset of greater power. I have been trying to decide on how that will fit in to a skills system where even beginners have a chance against a long time player.Isupreme - Sep 25, 2005 - 10:17 PM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
Is it possible to insert a sort of rider onto new players that allows them special resistances to these types?
Maybe overtime its efficacy wears off/powers diminish? aka: the newb sheild.
good luck w that issue.Caleb - Nov 30, 2005 - 03:12 PM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
Well, a permadeath possibility sounds really great but I'm afraid that many people understimate this potentiality. If a player knows that his char is doomed to die, he'll avoid a power-player approach.
I understand the importance of permaD for a Vampyre/daishar, but I would find usefull a potential permaD for every player (even if the possibility could be remote): if I'm an elf, suppose, I'll fight 100 times that damned dragon, because if he kills me I'll be able to resurrect. But what if I'm not sure to be able to kill him by myself? Answer: I'll gather some friends and I'll begin planning a strategy to defeat him. Result: RRPG (Real RPG)!
Well, it's only a supposition, but evaluate it!
The ipothesys of a ceremony to obtain a new chance for a permadead Daishar/Vampyre sounds grat for a RRPG: it "forces" a player not to live alone in Denia if he wants to resurrect: a RRPG player will have 2 possibilities in this way.
Think on Catholic idea of Purgatory: living ones praying fore one's soul to help him reaching Heaven. Should be possible to interrelate the chance to gain access at the Resurrection Item Quest only if someone grants for you? I dunno how to explain that... sorry
Final thought: I agree whith who thinks human will be the most played race. What will the others have more tan human to convince a player choosing them?Devilduck - Nov 30, 2005 - 09:50 PM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
I like the idea of a purgatory, something to hold the person in a setting to them selves so they have to struggle to regain the mortal realmRubiade - Dec 01, 2005 - 10:01 PM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
What if you let em loose some special abilities on death? Instead of perma death.
And let em have a chance to gain em back after a time period (2 weeks for example) via quest.Saean - Dec 08, 2005 - 07:39 PM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
I personally like the idea of true perma death. I have played games with it in place (angband anyone?) and find it breeds a much stronger attachment to any character which lives for quite a while. It is not for everyone but I think if you actually want to make certain races more powerful permadeath is a solution which will work to keep populations of those races low. I don't like the idea of going to a ghost form after death for a quest. This to me defeats the purpose of permadeath and is just not perma death.
I don't mind the idea of a long/involved quest to get a "get out of jail free card" as that option is only avaliable before you die. If your willing to go to great lengths to prevent your death before it happens you should be rewarded. However if after the fact you just regret it...well that's the whole catch with permadeath right there. You just get to regret it and start over.
So long as no one is forced to play a race with perma death I don't see the problem with having the option in the game for those brave of heart. Perma death is a big deal in terms of ramp up time. For people choosing to play a race with perma death after they die they will have little ability to adventure at the same level they could just 10 min ago. Perhaps after playing a certain race for a while with one chracter it will open up options to help with starting over?
Such as if someone lives as a vampyre for x amount of time or masters x skills or gets level x they can start a new vampyre with bonus skills or experience which will help them be more competative to start? They still lose the character which just died and have to start over but some of the essence of the old character is transfered to the new one to get a bit of a head start? (note I don't think time is a good indication to go by for this idea as you don't want people just creating them and standing around doing nothing)Devilduck - Dec 09, 2005 - 03:38 PM Post subject:
Lets think about this,
Valhyre, strives to balance risk vs reward. Think of it like the stock market, you can play it safe and conservative and be happy, or be aggressive and play volitile and either win big or lose big. To that end I propose the following
Death should have a sting. And that sting would be in the following,
Upon Death, a corpse of the person remains on the ground. This corpse is lootable but the only items looted are racial specific, bastlur scale, horn, human blood, nilbog brain matter etc. While the corpse is on the ground it will decay over time.
The corpse is able to be picked up by anyone. and can be transported to other places. Now the player who died is transported to an instance in the death realm, this instance is randomly generated. While in the death realm they can not use any chat methods to talk with those in the mortal realm. In the death realm there will be a series of challenges for the player to overcome these challenges will not be related to their skills or exp from the mortal realm. Everything needed to overcome these challenges will be found in the death realm it will just take some time for the person to find everything they need to leave the death realm. If the person has not overcome the challenges before their corpse in the mortal realm has decayed then they become perma dead.
Now if the players corpse was transported by friends or what have you to a temple or other designated site then that person will get some bonuses while in the death realm. Their corpse no longer decays if transported. plus, more of the tools needed to over come the challenges in the death realm are spawned/created to help the person over come the challenges
If the person fails at the challenges in the death realm then they are perma dead. and that character is no longer playable.
Now if the person overcomes the challenges then they regain the mortal realm and appear at the temple or site their corpse was transported to.. or in the case if it wasnt at the last temple they visited.
This I think allows two things to happen, it gives players one last chance to save themselves and allows their friends to help in the process, and it allows a sort of minigame with thinking type solution.Vyel - Dec 10, 2005 - 11:36 AM Post subject:
So now you are suggesting that not only will Daish and Vamps fall under permadeath rules, but now all races will be exposed to permadeath rules?Isupreme - Dec 10, 2005 - 02:02 PM Post subject:
I just dont see any gameplay in this. If i like puzzles i go play with puzzles. This thinking does not, as stated, "allows a sort of minigame with thinking type solution." - it Requires it.
Most importantly, this creates a catch 22 problem. Either regaining life is too hard or too easy. Take your pick. It will ALWAYS be one or the other for everyone who experiences. For puzzle solvers with freinds, easy and therefore pointless. For nonpuzzlers who happened to be out soloing cause it was the middle of the night........ too hard and therefore frustrating. Very few players will find the experience as it is conceived. Therefore you will have two player bases who are unhappy, and the permdeath feature nerfed.
Additionaly, if this feature is used to enable a more powerfull player, please consider the Pressure that puts on players to play that way. When ever balancing is not done well, players FLOCK to whatever build is considered to be more powerfull. I still dont see this acting to keep the overpowered players limited in number. Especially since it is my above stated position that you will have to Nerf the effect under constant pressure of "its too hard, it takes too long".
Please consider NOT having any form of Permdeath.Snowdonia - Dec 10, 2005 - 09:07 PM Post subject:
I'll say that if the death system causes people to spend more time getting their characters back than they actually spend playing and advancing their characters, it's gonna go to pot real fast.Devilduck - Dec 12, 2005 - 07:31 PM Post subject:
Right now there are no plans to do permadeath for any race but the Vampyres and Daishars, the bent of the death realm is to show the seperation of the "souls" or lifeforce of the Vampyres and Daishars that is different than the other races. And the death realm will be tuned to enhance that seperation.Werner - Feb 27, 2006 - 09:46 AM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
First of all I must say, that I am positive about the idea of permadeath.
This will make be a real gift to those who dont want powerplaying but roleplay.
The battles will be somthing you do with fear of loosing your character. Thus making more people interested in other ways of playing. Blacksmithing and so on.
It also assures a constant renewal in the power characters in the game.
It really is something to be that mighty Vampyre (not like in WoW where everybody is high level)
And you have to be careful and play with thought to keep your character.
Actually I think it would be great to make permadeath a possibility for all races, if you choose to go down a certain path (I know I know... this is not being considered but anyways)
For example with age a Bastlur changes. The last an most powerfull age might be something you choose to accept. As a downside your high age brings you the risk of passing away if you are killed.
To get back to death I have some ideas
Before you die you could go on quest to get your soul "trapped" in a relique or a speciel gem. There should be a number of different quest with different difficulties, so that the first soul-reliques will be easy to obtain. And the last very hard.
You can only use them once and only receive them once. So you get a fixed number of lives.
When you are dead, each race will have different ways of resurecting according to their mythology. It should be tough, and perhaps the person in charge of the resurrection should only be able to do it once for that very character? Thus the next time you die, you must find another one to lead your ressurection (unless you have got a new relique).
This will make sure, that you can get back to life, but it will tougher and tougher for each time you die.
But what should happen the 20th time you die and a week has passed and no one can help you get back to life?
I have read the other post about kids, and have come up with a mix-idea.
At a point in a characters life you can decide to become a parent. The kid will be NPC controlled until you die.
When you die, you can choose to resume the same race and play as your (now matured) kid. You get some bonuses to certain skills (and will be greater at those skills faster) that your "parent" also excelled in.
And you will inherit 33% of the gold and land (and a number of "flagged" items) that your parent had. 33% will be donated to your guild (if any) and the rest to the king/ruler/church of the land you live in (or just given back to the game?)
This will also make it a great deal to be the ruler of guilds or kingdoms and bring up interesting roleplaying and intriguing to attain power.Vandelheart - Feb 27, 2006 - 12:22 PM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
I posted about this on my guild forums and I have a similar view to Werner in how permadeath should be held. No one likes to lose something they worked for. It'd be like retiring from work and your company retirement plan is: "Well that was fun while it lasted. Good luck old timer."
Now if you have something that gave a little bit to your next permadeath character that might help a bit. Say for example you get a vampyre up to level 60 (know this skilled based game but an example). When you get killed off and you make a new character they get a small bonus say 6 extra skill points or maybe an item or two. The skill points or items you get would depened on the highest level you've gotten as a permadeath character. So if said new character died again at level 40 they would still get 6 extra skill points but only get to choose an item from their current inventory.Argosa - Feb 27, 2006 - 03:23 PM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
I'd just like to add that I am really looking forward to permadeath. I think it completely changes how you play your character in a good way. I do hope, however, that there is some sort of mitigation for housing and storage loss.Daneos - Mar 15, 2006 - 03:50 PM Post subject:
Hi, I'm currently playing Face of Mankind open beta. I think its a good idea, i for one would enjoy it, but what about those who are not experienced or don't have the time to be carefull? one mistake and its bye bye...
From a bussiness point of view, permadeath, no pvp, pvp or anything people don't like will detract them from the game, or attract them aswell
Let take, for example Open PVP. In Face of Mankind ANYONE can shoot you, i, infact was killed so many times i could not play my character. I found this an inconvience, the game its self is good. That in my opinon would limit the customer base. Now hear me out, i know what your thinking, we don't want tons of l33t 5p34k1n 12 year olds moaning that the game is to complicated or it takes to long to lvl yup.. Thats what an MMORPG is about right? reacreating a world. In my opinion an MMO should cater for everyone.
So we have XP debt at say level 40, by that time you should be skilled enough not to get in over your head and know your limits. PVP could be an option, it does take skill like most things.Your guild could say we are going to war with that guild, or we are going to defend our allies. It's all about choice.
I look forward and support a fair permadeath system.Dracokalen - Mar 16, 2006 - 01:20 PM Post subject:
Lets stay on topic. This is about permadeath.
If its just the vampyre and Daishars thats cool. As a general rule you don't want it to be every race, people won't be here long after loosing a character or 2.
As to a beginner vs. a long time player. I don't see why you would want them to be equal, the veteran has invested a lot of time and knows how to play the game. A beginner still needs to learn that. No need to cripple your long time players.
One shots - well first off I don't like the term "never" a 40th level warrior smacking a first level mob should be a one shot...again, its that experience thing.Daneos - Mar 16, 2006 - 05:52 PM Post subject:
Permadeath could be introduced at a later stage in the game, lvl wiseAvenight - Mar 16, 2006 - 08:48 PM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
Well This is at the core a great idea. To gain power you must take risks, But this needs alot of work. PremaD is a very tuchy subject to most gamers. I'm sure with time we can all come up with something. However, it will not be easy, but one thing that could be done is rather then allowing a player a chance to fully recover from deatt. Would be to allow them a chance at rebirth. Not force them to toatly start all over agian, but to lose a good portion of th power they had, and perhabs be reverted to there frist race. A.K.A. death of the charater has he was when he died, but not the complete lose of the charater alltogather.
Hm, trying to figer out how to put this just right. Witch I can't really do right now. At any rate. This kinda of idea may not be a complete answer, but in combo with others there could be a way of choice. Like say the quest your talking about, or simply to be reborn, but lose all those power and have to rebuild them. Choices Choices. What ever will we do?Greymont - Mar 17, 2006 - 12:28 AM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
I like the idea of permadeath; seems like it would give a certain realism to the dangers we'd be facing whenever we fight. I also like the ideas of children and rebirth; especially the part about being reverted back to human after dying as vampyre/daishar (though that might take too much sting out of what you want to do with permadeath). Maybe you could limit a player from being able to become a vampyre/daishar again for a certain amount of time (two weeks, month, etc) to offset this. Not sure if its doable, but I'm just spoutin' here...Vivatma - Mar 18, 2006 - 05:26 AM Post subject:
I'd rather not see a permadeath structure at all. If you have a quest which circumvents the permadeath, then it's not really permadeath.... just more of a hassle. Trust me you don't want to have some quest that can circumvent permadeath that can fail, you'll get so many complaining players your ears will never stop ringing. Instead, if you want to have stronger players but make sure they have consequences, and limit their numbers you need to make it a long long very difficult quest, and have it so, Vampyres can only come out at night, and Daishars can only come out during the day. The consequence is, Vampyres can permanently be destroyed, as can Daishars... if vampyres are dragged out into the sunlight, they die quite quickly. Let's say it takes 3 minutes IRL. Daishars exactly the same, only under the stars.
AND believe it, people will be anxious to kill them. For they hate eachother, naturally right? Not to mention Daishars are so hauty always being such goody-two-shoes, and those Vampyres are way too wicked to do allow to live!Gembone - Mar 22, 2006 - 02:43 AM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
well permadeath is a great idea for RPG. but if there is a after death quest for ressurection then it should be limited to onle a certain # of times it can be done before the fabric of your being is stretched to thin to be brought back. also it should be different for each time it is attempted. so it truely is a task to accomplish. if its the same every time then once they do it they know how and will have little to no chalenge doing it again and againDracokalen - Mar 22, 2006 - 12:06 PM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
well if I want realism and permadeath I'll volunteer to go back to iraq. This is a fantasy game, there should be a certain amount of realism that should not have to be tolerated. Restarting character after character is not something I would pay a gaming company for very long. It would definitely get old very quickly.
Now 2 races that you choose to become I can accept, just not for every character race.Kitt - Mar 27, 2006 - 09:16 PM Post subject:
Upon finding this game, I was overjoyed to hear of a commercial MMORPG focused on RP. For quite a while now, I've run shoddy servers of my own simply to make a game focused on Role Playing. One issue that we've always dealt with is death.
If you can instantly revive, with very little story based punishment, what is to stop people from running their mouths off at the guy RPing the King of a castle? "Sure, maybe he can send his guards to hunt me down, but eventually he'll get sick of doing that. If I can just revive over and over, who cares what they do to me?"
Death is a very LARGE motivating factor in human lives. It's what stops us from killing people; It's the factor that makes sky diving so much fun; Death is the thing that motivates us to make the most of our time left on earth. For a game focused on character development and realistic interactions, death is a must.
To be entirely fair, not everyone will be able to take the death of a character who they've worked on for over a year. Infact, even those who really try hard to RP realistically will be far from joyed to see such a character die. I like very much your idea to limiting it to a few races (I also like the fact that it fits logically for them to work this way.) I would avoid making the number of races that permadie way too small compared to the total races available. If there are 12 races to pick from, and only two of them permadie, the large majority of players will not have this motivating factor of death. Having two races that permadie, and 2 that don't would be a very balanced ratio in my oppinion. Even two permadeath races and a single non-premadeath race would be ok. (or 2:3, 3:3 ratio's, in this fashion)
I do not like your idea of making a puzzle system to come back to life, however. Not everone will like puzzles, and they shouldn't be required too. I think that any messures taken to circumvent death should be done BEFORE death. I belive one idea mentioned earlier was to have a soul stored in a stone, or something of that nature. I like this Idea a lot. If a Vampyre were to take the time to seek out and find a "Soul Stone" (perhaps even craft one himself) He could store a fragment of himself in this stone. Upon death, the soul would be attracted to the now soulless body, and be brought out and reattached. The catch is, since you obviously couldn't store your entire soul in the "Soul Stone", you not only return at a weaker level (perhaps some other forms of "deleveling" aswell), but your soul is less of a soul. The next time you choose to store your soul in a "Soul Stone" there is no garentee that your weakened soul will be able to re-enter properly. A.K.A, your second death now has a chance of failure, and each time your chance of failure becomes greater and greater. This will cut breaks for a few careless choices, or unfair situations, but it will punish those who are reckless.
The other death related thing that I want to address is the death of non-permadeath races. I think that here is a good spot for your ghost-realm and puzzle solving (It would be nice if other alternatives were provided randomly though, such as fighting your way out of the realm, or requiring aid of friends.) The only difference is that the time limit doesn't equal failure, but instead you come back to life as normal at the end of the time. This still creates an anoyance for those who cannot permadie, and makes death a situation they still want to avoid. If you die, you know your going to have to do some irritating task, or wait 12 hours. If it were me, that would be insentive enough to avoid death; however, the total loss of your character no longer exists.
I appolagize for the longwinded post ^^;; I see in this game the potential for something I've always wanted, so I feel obligated to put my 10 cents in =3
Meow.JargMatriarch - Apr 06, 2006 - 11:16 AM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
What if when in permadeath be able to chat with live players and persaude them to help you?Or if vampyre suck their life force and return to life/posses their mind with your lifeforce and take over their body.Also if you do ritual or whatever(qeust of dead player and life player friends) couuld your blood slaves do the ritual?Iceburgh - May 08, 2006 - 10:04 PM Post subject:
sorry i havnt read the entire post as of yet.But I like the thought of permadeath...Ive always wanted to play a hardcore character on diablo but didnt have a PC at the time to do so.To me the thrill of living on the edge and having a mistake could cost me my life is as real as my everyday job.Im a truck driver so if I were to make a mistake it could not only cost me but other peoples lives so having it in a game would make it that much more enjoyable.Im used to starting games over but the fact that you could create a character that has lived through the most dangerous of things in a game would not only show skill/teamwork but dedication to being a professional.And even if you added permadeath for all characters who says your forced to go out and fight baddies that are strong... you could always just sit back and beat up small creatures and then live your life out as a crafter and maybe like help protect the village from attacks which is the only reason you built up your fighting skills.Caleb - May 22, 2006 - 07:34 AM Post subject:
the more i read the more i'm convinced permadeath for everyone should be a must, expecially if you want a REAL RPG target. who cares if in that cave there's a thousand goblin brigade: I can resurrect one thousend times and defeat them all alone.
with permadeath I'll be scaried of every sound in the forest, at night. maybe a player should remain in "coma" (dunno how the english word is) while, maybe, his soul could walk for a while in search of someone able to help him, a necromancer or a healer, for example.
I understand that it's really horrible being killed after 6 months you're enjoing a character, but an "infinite resurrection system" will help only power players.Iceburgh - May 23, 2006 - 09:40 PM Post subject:
It may hurt solor's somewhat... but i still dont understand what the point of soloing in an MMO is for.... if you want to be alone why not play a 1 player game.Permadeath would make it so there are less noobs around ruining it for people... they will get tired of restarting and either become serious or quit.Death sounds good.Maybe some kinda way to comeback thats not easy.. like if your in a party and someone that youve known forever dies.. well the group should maybe be able to have a choice to complete a series of quests to bring the person back... Could maybe do like Dragon Ball Z with the Dragonballs and they can only be brought back once or something.but im sure as people progress with lack of knowledge of areas it will be hard to stay alive 100% of the time.Jon27 - Sep 07, 2006 - 03:17 AM Post subject:
ok what if there was a seperate continent that the super powerful players were telaported to once they reached the super powered races and leave some of the earliest and most responsible to watch over the newer players and then when they die they have to wait a certain amount of time before they can revive and they have to start at like thi slarge special city temple that has large rooms for all the different super powerful characters?Jon27 - Sep 07, 2006 - 03:19 AM Post subject:
Or keep them seperate and tell the newer players that they can see on like a world map or something and they aren't allowed to go there but they probably wouldn't try because it cold be surounded by gaurdians and whirl pools and stuff just another thought please tell me what you think.Gembone - Sep 07, 2006 - 03:00 PM Post subject:
just a little side not to Iceburgh's post. I am a solo'r for the most part one because my friends are at work alot of the time, 2 because most descent games are being focused on the MMO platform and not releasing a solo version so you are stuck playing MMO like it or not if you want to play the particular game, and 3 I dont get along with many people and get very frustrated when others do stupid things to get the entire group killed. so yes I am a solo'r in an MMO environment, but unlike most I exspect it to be a bit harder alone than with a party. What I dont expect is for it to be impossible for a solo play to accomplish any objective unless its put out there up front that its a party mission/objective. but even these should not stop the path you can take as a solo player should just change the path that has to be taken the reach the goal.Candesious - Sep 07, 2006 - 10:02 PM Post subject:
I have to say I like the idea and hope you can work a good/tedious task to have someone regain there vampyr/daishar class.
in thought at wht lv would a person be able to convert/go down the path of the vampyr/daishar?
If its at a mid or high lv then the reverting back to human form might not hurt that much but loss of skills and abilities would be a negative.furyfire543 - Nov 11, 2006 - 06:49 PM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
ill support perma-death for dais and vamps..... if you tell me what rewards you get from bein a dai or vampBeerninja - Nov 13, 2006 - 11:22 PM Post subject: RE: Permadeath
I love the idea of permadeath. The only thing that bothers me about it is lag/server kills. If I take the time and make a char that has the potential to permently die and I am out messing around one day and the lag monster rears it's ugly head while I am getting attacked by the little fluffy bunny that I could normaly kill with ease but get killed because of no fault of my own, that would be really rough. But other then the potential lag/server issues I would love it. I would prefer no way to get around the permadeath part when you die your dead. But that is just me
